Monday, July 11, 2005
Breastfeeding
I was perusing Kira's Blog today and read through her rant regarding nudity. Now, I have no problem with nudity. Seeing an attractive woman, or even a plain woman, naked does not necessarily roust my nether regions (I've gone to strip clubs without getting a chubby). So the problem isn't thinking about sex when I see a naked woman, it's about thinking she should be covered up. Go to any nude beach and you will see more people there that should be clothed, than people who have attractive bodies. So if you think going to a nude mall, beach, club, pool, etc. will be like watching skinemax after-dark, you will be greatly disappointed.
So it is with breastfeeding. When a woman "whips out her BREAST" to feed her baby, the horror isn't that I'm all hot for lactatin' momma, it's that I do not wish to see momma lactating (I do realize that Kira's situation was in a hospital, which to me, is a much more acceptable circumstance... I'm talking specifically about women flopping it out in public with no cover or worse... while you are having a conversation with them). I do not wish to see nature in action (I think there would be a lot of people upset if I took a great big shit in the middle of the street... talk about nature in action... everyone shits... why would anyone be alarmed at the movement of my bowels?). I'm going to make huge sweeping generalization here: I don't think that any man wants to see a woman nursing an infant, unless it is his wife and child, or has some professional reason to see it. It is the most beautiful, wondrous process when my wife uses her breasts to sustain the life of my son. It does not have the same effect if I see any other woman doing it.
And I don't like the idea of a child running around the house naked while there are guests in the home. I don't think it is proper or appropriate with guests, but it has nothing to do with nudity, it has to do with discipline. You don't have to scold a child and make him feel like a bad boy for doing it, but you do have to explain that there are times when that behavior is okay, and times when it is not. It starts that early in a child's life. The career I am in, makes it very obvious that children need guidance and that a lack of it can produce disastrous results.
I also understand that a naked boy in the house is not going to be the end of the world and that sometimes you have to choose your battles. So maybe I'll be eating my words in a couple of years.
So keep your kids clothes on, your lactating breasts covered and, unless you're really hot, your body covered.
So it is with breastfeeding. When a woman "whips out her BREAST" to feed her baby, the horror isn't that I'm all hot for lactatin' momma, it's that I do not wish to see momma lactating (I do realize that Kira's situation was in a hospital, which to me, is a much more acceptable circumstance... I'm talking specifically about women flopping it out in public with no cover or worse... while you are having a conversation with them). I do not wish to see nature in action (I think there would be a lot of people upset if I took a great big shit in the middle of the street... talk about nature in action... everyone shits... why would anyone be alarmed at the movement of my bowels?). I'm going to make huge sweeping generalization here: I don't think that any man wants to see a woman nursing an infant, unless it is his wife and child, or has some professional reason to see it. It is the most beautiful, wondrous process when my wife uses her breasts to sustain the life of my son. It does not have the same effect if I see any other woman doing it.
And I don't like the idea of a child running around the house naked while there are guests in the home. I don't think it is proper or appropriate with guests, but it has nothing to do with nudity, it has to do with discipline. You don't have to scold a child and make him feel like a bad boy for doing it, but you do have to explain that there are times when that behavior is okay, and times when it is not. It starts that early in a child's life. The career I am in, makes it very obvious that children need guidance and that a lack of it can produce disastrous results.
I also understand that a naked boy in the house is not going to be the end of the world and that sometimes you have to choose your battles. So maybe I'll be eating my words in a couple of years.
So keep your kids clothes on, your lactating breasts covered and, unless you're really hot, your body covered.
# Proud Daddy Posting @ 10:52 AM 
Comments:
<< Home
Some advice, sweet Andy:
(1) Don't get in a fight with the La Leche League lunatics. They have post-partum hormones fighting for them. You lose.
That said, I breastfed both my children whenever they needed it and I don't think anyone ever saw my nipple. Whenever a chick gets in a big dispute with Starbucks or whoever about whether they can breastfeed in public, I wonder: "Exactly how indiscreet and uncoordinated is this bovine moron?" If you have a decently desiged shirt and nursing bra (or go braless) and a baby blanket or towel and have more coordination than the average white guy dancing (i.e., not much), you can feed your kid from your own body without advertising the fact, showing off your tits, or breastfeeding while sitting on the toilet (gross).
Again, here is the mantra: figure out what you want to do, how to do it, then do it. I.e., if your infant is hungry, and you are a breastfeeding mother, excuse me if I assume that you are wearing clothes that enable you to breastfeed without making a spectacle of yourself. I'm not saying hide, I'm saying BE DISCREET GODDAMNITALL.
However, even though that is my well-informed and not-so-humble opinion, it is also my opinion that any person who approaches a nursing mother and tells her to stop really deserves a slow and agonizing death as a snack for a mother grizzly. Who are the morons that approach female mammals when feeding their young? This is a fight you will lose, lose, lose. Even if you win, you'll be sorry you did. What do you think you'd be like if everytime your Mama tried to feed you some naysayer made her stop? You wouldn't want your Mama to keep that person any heed, and neither will the baby's mother you are approaching.
(2) Naked kids. You'll eat your words Andy. At some point, Dane may decide he doesn't like clothes. Between 1 and 2 often. How many fights are you going to with with a two year old stripping? Maybe a few more than with the nursing mother, so good luck with that. And please videotape it. It will be fun to watch.
(1) Don't get in a fight with the La Leche League lunatics. They have post-partum hormones fighting for them. You lose.
That said, I breastfed both my children whenever they needed it and I don't think anyone ever saw my nipple. Whenever a chick gets in a big dispute with Starbucks or whoever about whether they can breastfeed in public, I wonder: "Exactly how indiscreet and uncoordinated is this bovine moron?" If you have a decently desiged shirt and nursing bra (or go braless) and a baby blanket or towel and have more coordination than the average white guy dancing (i.e., not much), you can feed your kid from your own body without advertising the fact, showing off your tits, or breastfeeding while sitting on the toilet (gross).
Again, here is the mantra: figure out what you want to do, how to do it, then do it. I.e., if your infant is hungry, and you are a breastfeeding mother, excuse me if I assume that you are wearing clothes that enable you to breastfeed without making a spectacle of yourself. I'm not saying hide, I'm saying BE DISCREET GODDAMNITALL.
However, even though that is my well-informed and not-so-humble opinion, it is also my opinion that any person who approaches a nursing mother and tells her to stop really deserves a slow and agonizing death as a snack for a mother grizzly. Who are the morons that approach female mammals when feeding their young? This is a fight you will lose, lose, lose. Even if you win, you'll be sorry you did. What do you think you'd be like if everytime your Mama tried to feed you some naysayer made her stop? You wouldn't want your Mama to keep that person any heed, and neither will the baby's mother you are approaching.
(2) Naked kids. You'll eat your words Andy. At some point, Dane may decide he doesn't like clothes. Between 1 and 2 often. How many fights are you going to with with a two year old stripping? Maybe a few more than with the nursing mother, so good luck with that. And please videotape it. It will be fun to watch.
I agree with the discreteness part. Renee has breastfed in a restaurant (the area in question was covered with a baby blanket).
And now an example of a lack of discreteness: We (Renee and I) have a friend who had get together. His sister was there with her daughter. In the middle of a conversation, she flops out a breast and starts feeding... showing all the goods. We never, ever broke eye contact and never said a word or batted an eye, although it was extremely uncomfortable. I was not about to say, "What the fuck are you doing?!?!" I would definitely have lost that fight (early, she was up in arms in a conversation about infants in "walker-on-wheels" ruining children's feet) and run away with my tail tucked.
As far as Dane running around naked... at home... fine, but not with guests or, especially, not in someone else's home. That's the battle I am going to pick!
And now an example of a lack of discreteness: We (Renee and I) have a friend who had get together. His sister was there with her daughter. In the middle of a conversation, she flops out a breast and starts feeding... showing all the goods. We never, ever broke eye contact and never said a word or batted an eye, although it was extremely uncomfortable. I was not about to say, "What the fuck are you doing?!?!" I would definitely have lost that fight (early, she was up in arms in a conversation about infants in "walker-on-wheels" ruining children's feet) and run away with my tail tucked.
As far as Dane running around naked... at home... fine, but not with guests or, especially, not in someone else's home. That's the battle I am going to pick!
From a woman's point of view, I was never being discrete out of a concern I'd arouse someone's sexual appetite. It's more that breasts cease to hold that connotation anymore. It's like whipping out a baby bottle. Hiding it doesn't feel necessary for privacy's sake. However, I was discrete because I didn't want to bother anyone. I did my time waiting tables and never new exactly how to behave when I walked up to a table where a woman was nursing. Do I go on, as if nothing is amiss? Do I excuse myself and return later? I always felt uncomfortable about it and didn't want to do that to anyone else. I was not so fortunate as my good friend, FW, in that my plumbing system was a bit over-zealous. Once the flow began, it could hit a passer by in the eye from 20 feet away. And they operated in unison. Whatever side was producing into the baby was producing all over the place at will. I pretty much had to excuse myself somewhere private so I could press a towel against the side that was not currently in use. Otherwise, I'd be bathing in milk by the end of the feeding! Not something which can easily be done discretely in public.
I agree on the nudity. It can be cute on a very young toddler...once in a while...when the kid is running because he knows it will bring a big reaction from Mom and Dad. As a normal and accepted dress code...no.
I agree on the nudity. It can be cute on a very young toddler...once in a while...when the kid is running because he knows it will bring a big reaction from Mom and Dad. As a normal and accepted dress code...no.
Autumn-Ewwww... not Britney Spears... she's fat!
Just kidding. I think there is pretty much an understanding of what people should keep there clothes on. No one really notices the person that has a little fat. The people that usually go nude... and we definitely notice... are about 300 lbs. It doesn't seem like there is any in between.
Wordwhiz-You should have fed one side and pumped the other. Don't waste any of "Momma's Gold!"
Just kidding. I think there is pretty much an understanding of what people should keep there clothes on. No one really notices the person that has a little fat. The people that usually go nude... and we definitely notice... are about 300 lbs. It doesn't seem like there is any in between.
Wordwhiz-You should have fed one side and pumped the other. Don't waste any of "Momma's Gold!"
Andy: How could I do THAT discretely??? And how many hands would that take? More than I have. I'd have needed an assistant. So there I'd be, trying to be discrete, holding a baby on one breast while my assistant pumped the other breast. I'd have needed a really big receiving blanket to hide all that!!!
I'm not saying it would be discrete... I'm saying you wouldn't want to lose any of the precious Momma's Milk!
For the record, I never was anything less than discreet about my breastfeeding of my children, but I *AM* very militant about the right of a woman to discreetly, blanket over breast, feed her child at the table rather than the bathroom. If you don't take your plate to eat on the toliet, I shouldn't have to do that to my baby either ;)
And yes, the incident in question was in a HOSPITAL and she had just given birth. You remember what it was like, Andy...hospital...birth...the damned nurses and doctors pass out gloves at the door so everybody can check out her cervix. There's just no excuse for a man fussing about a woman breastfeeding at the hospital like that, which is something he realized after careful thought and...well, it's why he came back and told me I was right, I'm guessing!
Nude children. Pick your battles. Shana has enough to deal with as far as Harvest is concerned to care about the nudity that much. He was bitten by a mosquito at 2 yrs and got encephalitis. He died, was revived, then had a stroke. He's on antiseizure meds and has a permanent limp. At the end of the day, she's just happy her baby is alive, when you get down to it. Shana told me he keeps his clothes on in public, but he has a hard time doing it at home. Our home counts as "home" because...Harvest is my nephew and my kids' cousin.
My kids have this rule: when it's just us, if you want to run around in your underwear, go for it. But if anybody is over, clothes stay on. They've always listened to this rule of mine, so no problems. The one that was hard to convince my son: shoes stay on when we go outside. But I considered the risk to his feet a bit high to drop that battle, and so I kept it up until I won.
And yes, the incident in question was in a HOSPITAL and she had just given birth. You remember what it was like, Andy...hospital...birth...the damned nurses and doctors pass out gloves at the door so everybody can check out her cervix. There's just no excuse for a man fussing about a woman breastfeeding at the hospital like that, which is something he realized after careful thought and...well, it's why he came back and told me I was right, I'm guessing!
Nude children. Pick your battles. Shana has enough to deal with as far as Harvest is concerned to care about the nudity that much. He was bitten by a mosquito at 2 yrs and got encephalitis. He died, was revived, then had a stroke. He's on antiseizure meds and has a permanent limp. At the end of the day, she's just happy her baby is alive, when you get down to it. Shana told me he keeps his clothes on in public, but he has a hard time doing it at home. Our home counts as "home" because...Harvest is my nephew and my kids' cousin.
My kids have this rule: when it's just us, if you want to run around in your underwear, go for it. But if anybody is over, clothes stay on. They've always listened to this rule of mine, so no problems. The one that was hard to convince my son: shoes stay on when we go outside. But I considered the risk to his feet a bit high to drop that battle, and so I kept it up until I won.
...oh, and that guy that I ranted on about the breastfeeding didn't have the same reasons you had to object. He TOLD me that breasts were sexual first and foremost (I mentioned that in my post) and so that's why I teased him about getting an erection watching breastfeeding...so he deserved everything I gave him *coughs* We actually got along great despite that being one of many times when I went off on him.
When you breastfeed in a hospital, they give you gowns appropriate for doing so (as I bet you remember). Even in Spain. So, her abilities to "whip it out" like he said were a bit more limited than his horror indicated.
And for the record, although I've never been to a nude beach, I'm so happy that I'm way under 300 lbs so Andy gives me permission to do so ;)
When you breastfeed in a hospital, they give you gowns appropriate for doing so (as I bet you remember). Even in Spain. So, her abilities to "whip it out" like he said were a bit more limited than his horror indicated.
And for the record, although I've never been to a nude beach, I'm so happy that I'm way under 300 lbs so Andy gives me permission to do so ;)
I never said a woman breastfeeding their child is "impure, obscene or vile." I think it is a wonderful gift given to a mother. It's wonderful to watch and know that my son is being nourished simply through his mother's milk.
The point of my statement was that women breastfeeding their child in public, need to be discrete (my wife agrees with this statement, who continues to DISCRETELY breastfeed our son, at times in public).
Now, back to your comment, which is a complete knee-jerk reaction to any comment made about breastfeeding. If you have an issue with a lack of discretion when you breastfeed, then you should expect to get odd looks when you continue to put people in uncomfortable situations. Our culture is made up of people who do not want to see a woman's breast, exposed, to breastfeed her child.
Again, as I said earlier, I agree that breastfeeding is a beautiful thing, but it completely loses it's beauty when I am watching anyone besides my wife and child. Urinating and defecating are so natural, everyone (not just women) does it, but we have restrooms so that we can all discretely eliminate our waste.
Post a Comment
The point of my statement was that women breastfeeding their child in public, need to be discrete (my wife agrees with this statement, who continues to DISCRETELY breastfeed our son, at times in public).
Now, back to your comment, which is a complete knee-jerk reaction to any comment made about breastfeeding. If you have an issue with a lack of discretion when you breastfeed, then you should expect to get odd looks when you continue to put people in uncomfortable situations. Our culture is made up of people who do not want to see a woman's breast, exposed, to breastfeed her child.
Again, as I said earlier, I agree that breastfeeding is a beautiful thing, but it completely loses it's beauty when I am watching anyone besides my wife and child. Urinating and defecating are so natural, everyone (not just women) does it, but we have restrooms so that we can all discretely eliminate our waste.
<< Home
