Friday, June 17, 2005
Life Support System for a Penis
As I read through Foilwoman's post, I have to respond to something that she said, that I took particular offense to (well, not really... that's kind of a strong word... maybe slight irritation is better).
Foilwoman-"But I've had two kids (and oodles of miscarriages) and I don't think any guy can say he's created half that amount of life (or potential life) with his own body. Maybe with someone else's, but not his own."
I'm not going to ever downplay the significance of pregnancy or child birth. I'm truly amazed at the development of a baby while in a woman's body. And birth, at the very least, is an emotionally overwhelming experience. However, to suggest that a man hasn't created life, is not at all true (and women can't do it on there "own" either). I will say that the man's job from conception (which is actually pleasurable on both sides) to birth (by no means is it a "fun" experience to watch the woman you love be in excrutiating pain for 54 hours) is not as difficult as the woman's, but that is 9 months out of a life time.
When we were going through our birthplan with our Doctor, we were pretty uptight about how we wanted things to go. No epidural. No episiotomy. Constant stretching to avoid tearing. Our Doctor told us that he would do everything thing he could to follow the plan and only if it was an emergency, would he deviate from the plan. Then he said something that made perfect sense. He told us that labor and delivery is one day (actually, it turned out to be 2 1/4 days... but who's counting) in the life of you and your child. He said, "it's important, but certainly not any more significant than taking care of yourself through out the pregnancy or your roles as parents when your child turns 16."
Now I'm going to take that and run with it. And I'm sure there are plenty of father's who would agree with me (Foilwoman: Even you stated that your Husband is wonderful with the children) that men are just as important in creating a life outside the womb. We are not just a sperm donator. There are bad fathers out there. They give up a little "baby gravy" and poof they are "biological fathers." There are also bad mother's out there too. Who, after having a baby, do more to emotionally "kill" there child, than create them.
So, please don't bash the men in you life anymore than they deserve (we certainly deserve it a lot of the time... but not for this).
Foilwoman-"But I've had two kids (and oodles of miscarriages) and I don't think any guy can say he's created half that amount of life (or potential life) with his own body. Maybe with someone else's, but not his own."
I'm not going to ever downplay the significance of pregnancy or child birth. I'm truly amazed at the development of a baby while in a woman's body. And birth, at the very least, is an emotionally overwhelming experience. However, to suggest that a man hasn't created life, is not at all true (and women can't do it on there "own" either). I will say that the man's job from conception (which is actually pleasurable on both sides) to birth (by no means is it a "fun" experience to watch the woman you love be in excrutiating pain for 54 hours) is not as difficult as the woman's, but that is 9 months out of a life time.
When we were going through our birthplan with our Doctor, we were pretty uptight about how we wanted things to go. No epidural. No episiotomy. Constant stretching to avoid tearing. Our Doctor told us that he would do everything thing he could to follow the plan and only if it was an emergency, would he deviate from the plan. Then he said something that made perfect sense. He told us that labor and delivery is one day (actually, it turned out to be 2 1/4 days... but who's counting) in the life of you and your child. He said, "it's important, but certainly not any more significant than taking care of yourself through out the pregnancy or your roles as parents when your child turns 16."
Now I'm going to take that and run with it. And I'm sure there are plenty of father's who would agree with me (Foilwoman: Even you stated that your Husband is wonderful with the children) that men are just as important in creating a life outside the womb. We are not just a sperm donator. There are bad fathers out there. They give up a little "baby gravy" and poof they are "biological fathers." There are also bad mother's out there too. Who, after having a baby, do more to emotionally "kill" there child, than create them.
So, please don't bash the men in you life anymore than they deserve (we certainly deserve it a lot of the time... but not for this).
# Proud Daddy Posting @ 12:43 PM 
Comments:
<< Home
You are absolutely correct, Andy. And for the first time in my two month blogging history, I feel a moral qualm. My husband is a great father. He's pretty much the best dad ever. Of course we need men for making babies (and for having fun when we're not making them) and raising them (think of my Papa Swan story).
That said, I'm not sure anyone who hasn't had umpteen hours of labor herself (this pretty much excludes guys), had physical complications during pregnancy (hernias, where the baby kicks your stomach through the abdominal muscle wall, and you can't take any painkillers because that might hurt your baby) or had the knowledge that the embarrassing stain now appearing on the floor is probably your much hoped for child and is now just a big mess that is going to gross everybody out and since it's happened before you really just want to howl, but can't and have to find a way to get to the hospital without having everybody one the street (really) tell you that your skirt is (big duh) blood stained (without offering any assistance), or had to go off antidepressants or ADD medicine due to pregnancy or whatever, can really know how responsible, scared, and miraculous the whole thing feels.
I was reacting to someone else's (not a blogger here) comment that of course god was male as a creater of life. Yes, it takes two to tango. But the physical risk, pain, and emotional rollercoaster (as well as the long-term health effects and scars from any abdominal surgery, which really suck, believe me) are things in which a father can only participate in vicariously, and only if he is emotionally open to that sort of thing.
I agree there are horrible parents of both genders. Most people shouldn't have kids. Once you have them, you are truly a hostage to fortune, and smart people know that.
So, guys aren't responsible for the way the procreation system of humans was designed. Whoever designed it, I want to have word with that one. My reaction was to "a deity is necessarily masculine" position, which is tripe (and which you didn't say) not dissing fathers who are fathers. Which you obviously are, and that's a good thing.
See my comments on Wordwhiz's blog (one of my links on my blog) about protecting children, etc. for more on this vein. So, I did not mean to dismiss the male role in procreation: I meant to dismiss the idea that creation is an entirely male entireprise, an idea that just doesn't make sense considering biological roles.
That said, I'm not sure anyone who hasn't had umpteen hours of labor herself (this pretty much excludes guys), had physical complications during pregnancy (hernias, where the baby kicks your stomach through the abdominal muscle wall, and you can't take any painkillers because that might hurt your baby) or had the knowledge that the embarrassing stain now appearing on the floor is probably your much hoped for child and is now just a big mess that is going to gross everybody out and since it's happened before you really just want to howl, but can't and have to find a way to get to the hospital without having everybody one the street (really) tell you that your skirt is (big duh) blood stained (without offering any assistance), or had to go off antidepressants or ADD medicine due to pregnancy or whatever, can really know how responsible, scared, and miraculous the whole thing feels.
I was reacting to someone else's (not a blogger here) comment that of course god was male as a creater of life. Yes, it takes two to tango. But the physical risk, pain, and emotional rollercoaster (as well as the long-term health effects and scars from any abdominal surgery, which really suck, believe me) are things in which a father can only participate in vicariously, and only if he is emotionally open to that sort of thing.
I agree there are horrible parents of both genders. Most people shouldn't have kids. Once you have them, you are truly a hostage to fortune, and smart people know that.
So, guys aren't responsible for the way the procreation system of humans was designed. Whoever designed it, I want to have word with that one. My reaction was to "a deity is necessarily masculine" position, which is tripe (and which you didn't say) not dissing fathers who are fathers. Which you obviously are, and that's a good thing.
See my comments on Wordwhiz's blog (one of my links on my blog) about protecting children, etc. for more on this vein. So, I did not mean to dismiss the male role in procreation: I meant to dismiss the idea that creation is an entirely male entireprise, an idea that just doesn't make sense considering biological roles.
I find myself doing a balancing act. I see value in both your arguments. Andy, I can see how the comment would touch a nerve in someone who is clearly so devoted a father as you seem to be. FW, I understand that, for most men, the instinct to nurture and protect takes place at the birth of their child (or later), where for women it happens so much sooner that that. We have formed that bond well before the birth. I was going to argue that position, until I remembered this recent post from my blogger friend, McG. It's worth a read for both of you.
http://mcgibfried.blogspot.com/2005/05/ive-been-down-lately.html
http://mcgibfried.blogspot.com/2005/05/ive-been-down-lately.html
WW, have you got a PI on me or something? My first daughter (a true joy) was initially a twin, and I lost the twin, just like your site reference. That's just eerie.
Wow...no FW, I don't and that IS eerie. I just meant that McG's post was counter to the point I initially intended to make that father's typically don't bond with the child until after the birth. Clearly McG had feelings for his son's twin who was never born. I found his post really sweet. I'm sorry for your loss (and McG's).
No, I never wanted to dismiss men's feelings regarding their children. The men who are good parents (like Dane's papa, here, and the blogfriend you provided a link to) really earn their stripes. It's just that the physical side of gestation and birth for me is such a mine-field.
Post a Comment
<< Home
