Tuesday, June 14, 2005
Hope = God
(Bit of a side note to readers: I worked on this last night from 10:30pm until midnight. I pushed the post button and received a lovely "network error." When I went back... everything was gone. Devastated... I went to bed. I typed it into Word today and transferred it.)
In case you haven't been keeping up, take a look at our conversation. Once you're up to speed, read further. And if anyone out there wants to help me out, please do. I think I may be out of my league here.
I'll try to be succinct, but it's probably not going to happen. I'm going to go through as many ideas as Foilwoman has thrown at me. Let's start with a specific idea first, the male or female of God. Pretty easy way to ease into the pool. I guess my thought on that is, God just is. God created us as male and female, but God isn't either one. Referencing God as He just kind of keeps it simple. If you prefer She, that's fine with me. I just don't think I can refer to God as It (which is a really great Stephen King novel... oops... sorry).
Moving on to a loving caring God that allows things like genocide and cruelty. I think that human beings in all of our flaws and sinful nature has turned the world into what it is... a cruel place to live. I don't think that God wants the world to be like this, but people have turned there back on God and toward earthly things like power, greed, the forbidden. We are all basically Freud's Id, until we have been educated and disciplined. Look at babies, if you were to make a baby 6 feet tall and 200 pounds, they would be murderous in their desires to have whatever they wanted. It is in our nature to be selfish and take what we want. I would like to think that we all have had a choice in the matter of turning to or away from God, but that is something I don't know about. How does a person turn away from how he/she has been raised? Ineffective and bad parents can certainly raise a child into a bad person. But we also see good people from bad homes. The same can be said for good homes and bad kids. I don't know the equation to that one. There is a bigger deal at work than I can understand.
My pastor does a healing services at church. We discussed this in our Tuesday night class. He told us he didn't understand how one person can pray for healing and die within a week, and another person can pray and be totally healed. He said, "Did she not pray hard enough? Did she do something long ago that made her unworthy of healing?" He said he didn't understand, but he's seen prayer work. I'll admit that I am a little skeptical of some of the healing stuff. But how else do you explain it?And does our understanding of something like that have to be the case for it to really happen? Part of the problem, I think is that our ego has gotten to be too big. We think we know so much, that there isn't a reason to have God, because we can play God. But God is the Alpha and the Omega. Beginning and End. He is outside of time and space. He is in the past, present and future. He knows our every move before we take it, before we have even thought about it. Everyone's thoughts, not just mine, but my wife's, my dog's (that's another topic... if you want to get into that one), everyone's thoughts. Our understanding (and I'm talking about the understanding of all people, in all sciences), is not one grain of sand on an infinite beach, compared to His understanding. He knows the secrets of the universe, from infinite space to a single atom. Even our own brain, we have such limited understanding. So, don't you think that maybe there is a bigger concept of the complexities of the world than we could possibly understand? Could it be that even if the plan was all laid out in front of us, there is no way we could possibly comprehend it? Maybe people die (even cruel deaths) to fulfill something. The old butterfly effect. We cannot possibly know what seeds are planted when a single event happens in the world.
There has to be something bigger at work, right? I mean what is the alternative? Let's take the argument that we all came from a single celled amoeba. And from that we grew into what we are today. The big question is: why? What's the worth of my life if I am a controlled series of chemical reactions? What is the purpose of me being here, if that is all I am? Where is the hope? If that is the case, what is the difference between Hitler and Mother Theresa? Certainly we can say both had great accomplishments. Why doesn't recorded history say Hitler was a genius in taking over Europe? Why isn't Mother Theresa's compassion deemed ridiculous and weak? I think the answer to all of this is that there is hope. Doesn't the world seem hopeless if there is no reason for it, no reason to be good or for others to be good to us? Why go on living when there is no purpose in suffering, no purpose in growing? Hope is what keeps us alive. Hope sustains us when the suffering is that bad. Without God there is no Hope.
I think God is very interested in us and wants us to turn to him. I think God has much more insight into what happens when we leave here. For Him, death is a rebirth into something far better than anything on earth. It removes all suffering and makes you perfect. He only asks that you believe.
I know I have missed some of your specific points, so let me know what they are. My attempt was to cover ideas rather than specific questions. But I can do that too.
So, back at cha'!
In case you haven't been keeping up, take a look at our conversation. Once you're up to speed, read further. And if anyone out there wants to help me out, please do. I think I may be out of my league here.
I'll try to be succinct, but it's probably not going to happen. I'm going to go through as many ideas as Foilwoman has thrown at me. Let's start with a specific idea first, the male or female of God. Pretty easy way to ease into the pool. I guess my thought on that is, God just is. God created us as male and female, but God isn't either one. Referencing God as He just kind of keeps it simple. If you prefer She, that's fine with me. I just don't think I can refer to God as It (which is a really great Stephen King novel... oops... sorry).
Moving on to a loving caring God that allows things like genocide and cruelty. I think that human beings in all of our flaws and sinful nature has turned the world into what it is... a cruel place to live. I don't think that God wants the world to be like this, but people have turned there back on God and toward earthly things like power, greed, the forbidden. We are all basically Freud's Id, until we have been educated and disciplined. Look at babies, if you were to make a baby 6 feet tall and 200 pounds, they would be murderous in their desires to have whatever they wanted. It is in our nature to be selfish and take what we want. I would like to think that we all have had a choice in the matter of turning to or away from God, but that is something I don't know about. How does a person turn away from how he/she has been raised? Ineffective and bad parents can certainly raise a child into a bad person. But we also see good people from bad homes. The same can be said for good homes and bad kids. I don't know the equation to that one. There is a bigger deal at work than I can understand.
My pastor does a healing services at church. We discussed this in our Tuesday night class. He told us he didn't understand how one person can pray for healing and die within a week, and another person can pray and be totally healed. He said, "Did she not pray hard enough? Did she do something long ago that made her unworthy of healing?" He said he didn't understand, but he's seen prayer work. I'll admit that I am a little skeptical of some of the healing stuff. But how else do you explain it?And does our understanding of something like that have to be the case for it to really happen? Part of the problem, I think is that our ego has gotten to be too big. We think we know so much, that there isn't a reason to have God, because we can play God. But God is the Alpha and the Omega. Beginning and End. He is outside of time and space. He is in the past, present and future. He knows our every move before we take it, before we have even thought about it. Everyone's thoughts, not just mine, but my wife's, my dog's (that's another topic... if you want to get into that one), everyone's thoughts. Our understanding (and I'm talking about the understanding of all people, in all sciences), is not one grain of sand on an infinite beach, compared to His understanding. He knows the secrets of the universe, from infinite space to a single atom. Even our own brain, we have such limited understanding. So, don't you think that maybe there is a bigger concept of the complexities of the world than we could possibly understand? Could it be that even if the plan was all laid out in front of us, there is no way we could possibly comprehend it? Maybe people die (even cruel deaths) to fulfill something. The old butterfly effect. We cannot possibly know what seeds are planted when a single event happens in the world.
There has to be something bigger at work, right? I mean what is the alternative? Let's take the argument that we all came from a single celled amoeba. And from that we grew into what we are today. The big question is: why? What's the worth of my life if I am a controlled series of chemical reactions? What is the purpose of me being here, if that is all I am? Where is the hope? If that is the case, what is the difference between Hitler and Mother Theresa? Certainly we can say both had great accomplishments. Why doesn't recorded history say Hitler was a genius in taking over Europe? Why isn't Mother Theresa's compassion deemed ridiculous and weak? I think the answer to all of this is that there is hope. Doesn't the world seem hopeless if there is no reason for it, no reason to be good or for others to be good to us? Why go on living when there is no purpose in suffering, no purpose in growing? Hope is what keeps us alive. Hope sustains us when the suffering is that bad. Without God there is no Hope.
I think God is very interested in us and wants us to turn to him. I think God has much more insight into what happens when we leave here. For Him, death is a rebirth into something far better than anything on earth. It removes all suffering and makes you perfect. He only asks that you believe.
I know I have missed some of your specific points, so let me know what they are. My attempt was to cover ideas rather than specific questions. But I can do that too.
So, back at cha'!
# Proud Daddy Posting @ 11:22 AM 
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Thanks, Andy. It's sweet of you to put so much time into this (especially given the dreaded "network error" message). I'll be back with my comments, follow up questions, etc. after I finish work for which people pay me money for today.
this is some really good stuff you and foilwoman have started.
i've been going through some really rough times for the past year and a half (maybe it's 2 years now). during this time i have been doing a lot of questioning in regards to God and why things happen. i have a couple of good friends of mine who are religious to the extent that i go to them with my questions concerning God and 'why he is doing this to me'. i know that sounds selfish, but in the depressed state that i was in that's how i looked at it. it got to a point where when people would say 'just look at it this way, it can't get any worse', something would happen and it actually would get worse (i started freaking out when people would say that to me, because then seriously, something worse happened everytime).
i've been trying to understand His ways and to believe that everything happens for a reason. though i still do not know what it is He has instore for me, i am patiently waiting, still with hope. my friend andrea told me not to lose my faith and that all i needed was enough faith, the size of a mustard seed, and God would be with me. granted, i've got more than a mustard seed of faith, because honestly, all i've got left is my faith.
when i asked my other friend annie about why God lets certain things happen, like when bad things happen to good people and how could God let it happen. i've asked this question time and time again, to anyone who would want to try and give me an answer. finally after all these years, someone has said something to me that i can almost believe, and it's better than believe that God let something bad happen. that's always been an issue for me in regards to God. how he could let children die, be molested, etc. what she told me is that it wasn't God 'letting' bad things happen, it's Satan doing evil. i'm not saying that it is 'the' answer, but it's an answer i am more able to live with.
anyway, sorry for going on and on, on your blog. just my thoughts. i'm definitely not one knowledgeable on this subject.
i've been going through some really rough times for the past year and a half (maybe it's 2 years now). during this time i have been doing a lot of questioning in regards to God and why things happen. i have a couple of good friends of mine who are religious to the extent that i go to them with my questions concerning God and 'why he is doing this to me'. i know that sounds selfish, but in the depressed state that i was in that's how i looked at it. it got to a point where when people would say 'just look at it this way, it can't get any worse', something would happen and it actually would get worse (i started freaking out when people would say that to me, because then seriously, something worse happened everytime).
i've been trying to understand His ways and to believe that everything happens for a reason. though i still do not know what it is He has instore for me, i am patiently waiting, still with hope. my friend andrea told me not to lose my faith and that all i needed was enough faith, the size of a mustard seed, and God would be with me. granted, i've got more than a mustard seed of faith, because honestly, all i've got left is my faith.
when i asked my other friend annie about why God lets certain things happen, like when bad things happen to good people and how could God let it happen. i've asked this question time and time again, to anyone who would want to try and give me an answer. finally after all these years, someone has said something to me that i can almost believe, and it's better than believe that God let something bad happen. that's always been an issue for me in regards to God. how he could let children die, be molested, etc. what she told me is that it wasn't God 'letting' bad things happen, it's Satan doing evil. i'm not saying that it is 'the' answer, but it's an answer i am more able to live with.
anyway, sorry for going on and on, on your blog. just my thoughts. i'm definitely not one knowledgeable on this subject.
Foilwoman-Can't wait to read it!
Sandra-Never, ever, ever apologize for writing any response, no matter how long or short (have you not read some of mine? :-))
It's probably not a good idea to think that something can't get worse, because it always can. And I think that if you are waiting patiently for God to show you how you are apart of His plan, you can't just wait inactively. You have to pursue, ask questions, pray for an answer and listen for one to come to you. It won't happen with a clap of thunder, but with the sound of a whisper.
Our Pastor talked about prayer in a different way. He talked about the difference between prayer in the West and prayer in East. Long story short, prayer in the east is like dipping your hand in a spiritual waterfall and being a part of an ever flowing spirit. He tells us to go to a quiet room (maybe a church sanctuary?) and sit in a chair, not looking down, but straight ahead, like we are listening to someone across from us telling us something very important. Close your eyes and relax. Take 5 deep, slow clensing breaths. He said to let your thoughts go, let them flutter across your consciousness. If you get distracted by a noise or disturbing thought (like I have to clean the house tomorrow, etc.), use a focus word (I use the word "cross," Renee uses "Love," but it can be any word) to get the thought out of your head. Just relax your breathing. Do this for 20-30 minutes. Try to remember the things that entered your consciousness and reflect on it.
This is no different than meditating. Just listen to what is jiggling around in your head. You may find it gives you a direction. You may come up with more questions you need to ask yourself.
Let me know what you think about it. I hope it helps.
Sandra-Never, ever, ever apologize for writing any response, no matter how long or short (have you not read some of mine? :-))
It's probably not a good idea to think that something can't get worse, because it always can. And I think that if you are waiting patiently for God to show you how you are apart of His plan, you can't just wait inactively. You have to pursue, ask questions, pray for an answer and listen for one to come to you. It won't happen with a clap of thunder, but with the sound of a whisper.
Our Pastor talked about prayer in a different way. He talked about the difference between prayer in the West and prayer in East. Long story short, prayer in the east is like dipping your hand in a spiritual waterfall and being a part of an ever flowing spirit. He tells us to go to a quiet room (maybe a church sanctuary?) and sit in a chair, not looking down, but straight ahead, like we are listening to someone across from us telling us something very important. Close your eyes and relax. Take 5 deep, slow clensing breaths. He said to let your thoughts go, let them flutter across your consciousness. If you get distracted by a noise or disturbing thought (like I have to clean the house tomorrow, etc.), use a focus word (I use the word "cross," Renee uses "Love," but it can be any word) to get the thought out of your head. Just relax your breathing. Do this for 20-30 minutes. Try to remember the things that entered your consciousness and reflect on it.
This is no different than meditating. Just listen to what is jiggling around in your head. You may find it gives you a direction. You may come up with more questions you need to ask yourself.
Let me know what you think about it. I hope it helps.
Reply posted on my blog. Basically, what does god say about pain, particularly to the truly innocent? So sorry, it was necessary?
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